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Androgyne vs Genderqueer, word connotations and identities
Saturday, January 10th, 2009 10:38 amThere is a discussion on one of my mailing lists about the differences between the words 'androgyne' and 'genderqueer'. To me, these words are basically synonyms, and I identify as both. To me, both of these words have positive connotations, even though their "mental flavor" is slightly different to me, based on my experiences with the words, and my experiences of people I've come across online who've stated that they identify as one or the other.
The mental flavor I get from 'androgyne' is more mellow, mature, laid-back, non-confrontational, at peace.
The mental flavor I get from 'genderqueer' is more youthful, energetic, confrontational, colorful.
These mental flavors have even been affected by this recent mailing list discussion - I cannot say for certain whether the flavors in my mind were exactly the same before.
In the discussion, this statement from wikipedia was quoted:
"Furthermore, genderqueer, by virtue of its linkage with queer culture, carries sociopolitical connotations that androgyne does not carry. For these reasons, some androgynes may find the label genderqueer inaccurate, inapplicable, or offensive."
In the discussion, some people agreed with this statement. They feel that 'genderqueer' is strongly correlated with having a political agenda, even if it's simply because the term includes the word 'queer', and apparently that is a "strongly loaded" word.
Apparently, the word 'queer' also has different connotations to me and these people. Coincidentally, someone on my LJ friends-list also yesterday commented on usage of the word 'queer', which made me feel that their interpretation of the word was also different from mine.
The interesting part of all this is how even when people may agree on the basic definition of a word, they may disagree strongly on the "connotations" of the word. A person's connotations with a word are based on their own life experiences - how they've heard the word used, and in what contexts, and by what people.
What follows sort of builds upon thoughts I've put down on my Philosophy of Gender page.
How a person identifies with various labels depends on the connotations the person has of those labels.
My gender identity is strongly affected by the connotations I associate with gendered words. For example, I know that the main dictionary definition of "woman" is simply "an adult female". I acknowledge that I *am* an adult female. Yet, I disdain being labelled a woman, because of the other connotations I have of the word. If it weren't for those other connotations, I probably wouldn't mind being called a woman, any more than I'd mind being called an adult female. (I don't have as many connotations for the word 'female'.) Part of my disdain of the word is because I don't feel the connotations apply to me, and part of my disdain is because I don't want other people to assume those connotations apply to me, simply because I am an adult female. Part of it is how I feel inside, and part of it is how I want others to think of me.
Yet the latter part of this also depends on what connotations other people have for the word "woman". Their connotations may or may not be similar to mine. So even if other people label me as a woman, it doesn't necessarily mean the same thing to them as it does to me. For some people, it may just mean that I am "an adult female" without necessarily indicating anything else. They may view me as an adult female with various good and bad characteristics; they may view me as unusual as compared to typical females, but still as female and therefore a "woman".
It may seem unnecessary to some people, to have a lot of different words for describing a person's gender as separate from their physical sex. If one acknowledges that every person, male or female or intersex, can have any combination of qualities, in spite of there being statistical differences between males and females when taken as a whole, then perhaps there is less need for words which distinguish a person's gender from their sex. If one doesn't assume that a particular adult female has a certain set of qualities simply because they are an adult female...
The problem is, that I think most people *do* assume differing sets of qualities for women overall, and for men overall, even if they acknowledge that deviations can and do occur. I believe this, because I know that even I *MYSELF* make these kinds of assumptions. When I find out that someone is male or female, it automatically affects my mental flavor of that person, even if I know very little else about them yet.
Thinking of those kind of assumptions galls me, which is why I prefer to state my gender as other than "man" or "woman". It is a way to clue someone else in, that perhaps I deviate from their assumptions, and perhaps they shouldn't assume anything about me based on my sex. It is also a way for other people to clue me in, that I shouldn't assume anything about them based on their sex. If I find out that someone identifies as an androgyne or genderqueer, it affects my thinking of them, based on the mental flavor I have of those words... I still make vague assumptions about the person, but they are different assumptions than otherwise.
If I find out that someone is female and genderqueer, I will assume that they are probably not into typically "feminine" things, and that they may be into some typically "masculine" things, and vice versa for someone who is male and genderqueer. Yet this is just a starting point for visualizing the person in my mind. I know that any given genderqueer person may be into various masculine and feminine things, just like any non-genderqueer person. (How I and/or other people define "feminine" and "masculine" would be a whole 'nother discussion.)
If I find out that someone is androgyne or genderqueer, without me knowing what their sex is, my mind sometimes still tries to determine what their sex is, as a way of interpreting things they say.
For example, I was watching a video log of a person who I knew identified as androgyne, but I could not tell if they were male, female, or intersex. They mentioned, in regards to their gender, something from their childhood, and my mind tried interpreting it in terms of the person having been a boy or a girl... was this a boy admiring a girl, because "he" admired and identified with the girl's qualities, or was this a girl admiring a girl, because "she" was attracted to females in a lesbian or heterosexual FTM way?
So, my mind still stereotypes people based on their sex, even though in the case of genderqueer people, it stereotypes them partially based on stereotypes of the *other* sex. So my mind still tries to find out a person's sex as a way of aiding in visualizing and categorizing the person.
.
Should I just call myself a "woman", and not care about what assumptions other people have of me based on that word? When people get to know me, the assumptions would slowly be replaced by actual impressions. Does it matter what their initial assumptions are?
Do I choose to identify as something other than "woman", in order to feel more special and unique? Or am I actually different enough from a "typical" woman, that it makes sense to tell people that my gender is something else?
The mental flavor I get from 'androgyne' is more mellow, mature, laid-back, non-confrontational, at peace.
The mental flavor I get from 'genderqueer' is more youthful, energetic, confrontational, colorful.
These mental flavors have even been affected by this recent mailing list discussion - I cannot say for certain whether the flavors in my mind were exactly the same before.
In the discussion, this statement from wikipedia was quoted:
"Furthermore, genderqueer, by virtue of its linkage with queer culture, carries sociopolitical connotations that androgyne does not carry. For these reasons, some androgynes may find the label genderqueer inaccurate, inapplicable, or offensive."
In the discussion, some people agreed with this statement. They feel that 'genderqueer' is strongly correlated with having a political agenda, even if it's simply because the term includes the word 'queer', and apparently that is a "strongly loaded" word.
Apparently, the word 'queer' also has different connotations to me and these people. Coincidentally, someone on my LJ friends-list also yesterday commented on usage of the word 'queer', which made me feel that their interpretation of the word was also different from mine.
The interesting part of all this is how even when people may agree on the basic definition of a word, they may disagree strongly on the "connotations" of the word. A person's connotations with a word are based on their own life experiences - how they've heard the word used, and in what contexts, and by what people.
What follows sort of builds upon thoughts I've put down on my Philosophy of Gender page.
How a person identifies with various labels depends on the connotations the person has of those labels.
My gender identity is strongly affected by the connotations I associate with gendered words. For example, I know that the main dictionary definition of "woman" is simply "an adult female". I acknowledge that I *am* an adult female. Yet, I disdain being labelled a woman, because of the other connotations I have of the word. If it weren't for those other connotations, I probably wouldn't mind being called a woman, any more than I'd mind being called an adult female. (I don't have as many connotations for the word 'female'.) Part of my disdain of the word is because I don't feel the connotations apply to me, and part of my disdain is because I don't want other people to assume those connotations apply to me, simply because I am an adult female. Part of it is how I feel inside, and part of it is how I want others to think of me.
Yet the latter part of this also depends on what connotations other people have for the word "woman". Their connotations may or may not be similar to mine. So even if other people label me as a woman, it doesn't necessarily mean the same thing to them as it does to me. For some people, it may just mean that I am "an adult female" without necessarily indicating anything else. They may view me as an adult female with various good and bad characteristics; they may view me as unusual as compared to typical females, but still as female and therefore a "woman".
It may seem unnecessary to some people, to have a lot of different words for describing a person's gender as separate from their physical sex. If one acknowledges that every person, male or female or intersex, can have any combination of qualities, in spite of there being statistical differences between males and females when taken as a whole, then perhaps there is less need for words which distinguish a person's gender from their sex. If one doesn't assume that a particular adult female has a certain set of qualities simply because they are an adult female...
The problem is, that I think most people *do* assume differing sets of qualities for women overall, and for men overall, even if they acknowledge that deviations can and do occur. I believe this, because I know that even I *MYSELF* make these kinds of assumptions. When I find out that someone is male or female, it automatically affects my mental flavor of that person, even if I know very little else about them yet.
Thinking of those kind of assumptions galls me, which is why I prefer to state my gender as other than "man" or "woman". It is a way to clue someone else in, that perhaps I deviate from their assumptions, and perhaps they shouldn't assume anything about me based on my sex. It is also a way for other people to clue me in, that I shouldn't assume anything about them based on their sex. If I find out that someone identifies as an androgyne or genderqueer, it affects my thinking of them, based on the mental flavor I have of those words... I still make vague assumptions about the person, but they are different assumptions than otherwise.
If I find out that someone is female and genderqueer, I will assume that they are probably not into typically "feminine" things, and that they may be into some typically "masculine" things, and vice versa for someone who is male and genderqueer. Yet this is just a starting point for visualizing the person in my mind. I know that any given genderqueer person may be into various masculine and feminine things, just like any non-genderqueer person. (How I and/or other people define "feminine" and "masculine" would be a whole 'nother discussion.)
If I find out that someone is androgyne or genderqueer, without me knowing what their sex is, my mind sometimes still tries to determine what their sex is, as a way of interpreting things they say.
For example, I was watching a video log of a person who I knew identified as androgyne, but I could not tell if they were male, female, or intersex. They mentioned, in regards to their gender, something from their childhood, and my mind tried interpreting it in terms of the person having been a boy or a girl... was this a boy admiring a girl, because "he" admired and identified with the girl's qualities, or was this a girl admiring a girl, because "she" was attracted to females in a lesbian or heterosexual FTM way?
So, my mind still stereotypes people based on their sex, even though in the case of genderqueer people, it stereotypes them partially based on stereotypes of the *other* sex. So my mind still tries to find out a person's sex as a way of aiding in visualizing and categorizing the person.
.
Should I just call myself a "woman", and not care about what assumptions other people have of me based on that word? When people get to know me, the assumptions would slowly be replaced by actual impressions. Does it matter what their initial assumptions are?
Do I choose to identify as something other than "woman", in order to feel more special and unique? Or am I actually different enough from a "typical" woman, that it makes sense to tell people that my gender is something else?
